A Travel Policy’s Biggest Barrier

What is the biggest issue that stands between a policy and its successful delivery? Is it a lack of knowledge or ability in order to create one? Is it uncooperative or unable suppliers or intermediaries? Is it poor uptake or availability of appropriate technology systems? Or is it simply that end users either cannot or will not comply with edicts and have ways of getting around them?

Depending on your own experiences you could say one, some or all of the above but I think you might be missing something even more important. What is this something? It is what I call the three ‘P’s of internal Politics, Procedures and Processes and these have nothing to do with suppliers, intermediaries or individual travellers.

I have seen so many companies invest huge resources and money to create detailed and potentially rewarding travel programmes only to waste much benefit due to the three ‘P’s. Many of them choose not to identify this as the cause as it would not be considered ‘Politically’ correct to do so especially as the issues usually start at board level. A shame really as board level is where any rectifying needs to start.

So what am I actually saying? I believe that internal politics, inflexible procedures and lack of communication processes are the biggest road blocks when it comes to the delivery of a negotiated and delivered travel programme. I am also saying that non compliant travellers are not the biggest villains, it is more likely the messages they are receiving (or in some cases not) from much higher up the business chain of command.

Taking a closer look at any company’s board you can see why problems could occur. Rather like a herd of elephants you have the strong patriarch and around him a chain of command with different interests and abilities. Again, like any herd there is a fair amount of head butting and scheming going on. They all represent different interests from finance to sales, operations to procurement and some hold more sway than others.

Eventually these ‘band of brothers’ agree a policy. But do they really? You can be certain that there will be winners and losers but when it comes to something as emotive as travel they seem less inclined to feed their solidarity down the line. In some areas there can be a visible lack of zeal and that is all it takes to undermine a policy. Particularly when there are so many practical ways of getting around it.

Many companies end up with a policy that has been presented by procurement who are by no means top dog (or elephant!) at the board table, which is not satisfactory to all and then they have to communicate it to a sometimes incredulous work force. This is where we come to the second closely linked ‘P’ of procedures. Who is allowed to say what to whom and what are the ‘P’ for processes for doing it. How much can you or can’t you say about your decisions? How much should you justify them? How much should you mandate them?

Let us say those wise old elephants have at least given tacit support to the policy. Who is going to sponsor it and keep on the agenda as the process develops? Who is going to go to senior directors and ask them to pull their folk into line? How are those messages going to transmit through a company that, possibly, apart from payroll has no appropriate method for these types of communication?

My message to corporations is a simple one. Sort yourself out at the top. Put into place procedures and processes and only then consider the creation of a policy that is going to be committed to and enforced across the whole employee base. This will save you more than any supplier or intermediary will.

The Longest Flight Home

Sometimes all you want is your own bed in your own house, especially towards the end of a hurried and stressful business trip. I certainly felt like that as I sat in a dull lounge at Los Angeles airport waiting for them to announce the flight back to London and home.

This trip had come fast after a previous one to Sao Paulo and it had not been long ago that I had been insane enough to fly from London to Australia for a day meeting then back. My body did not know where it was and my stomach didn’t know what it wanted. Certainly not the pretzels I was absently chewing, hastened downwards by a vicious Bloody Mary.

Never mind, I thought as the call finally came, the flight would be long and I would soon be getting the sleep I craved for. To my joy they upgraded both me and a conference colleague at the gate into First Class with its flat bed seats and comfy pyjamas. This is going to be just great I thought as I walked into the dimly lit soothing cabin. I was given a glass of champagne and led to my wide and welcoming armchair.

Now I never have trouble sleeping on aircraft, never. As soon as the plane took off and reached altitude I flattened my seat, collected a few stray pillows and dived under the duvet I had found in the overhead locker. My seat was cosily positioned, on its own, at the front of the plane.

Having announced to the nearest cabin crew that I did not want drinks, dinner or any other kind of service until breakfast I donned my eye shades,slid down the seat and fell into an immediate and beautiful dreamless sleep. What seemed like only a few seconds later a great big soft something crashed on top of me. I thought I was being suffocated by a giant marshmallow until I lifted my shades enough to see that the crew had dropped the rest of the duvets on top of me.

After receiving profuse apologies I drifted off once more and this lasted about ten minutes before I woke feeling a tentative hand pressing gently but persistently on my arm. I must have jerked upright suddenly because reeling back in front of me was a scared looking steward. He was talking but I heard nothing as the engines were roaring and I had taken out my hearing aids to sleep. Just a moment I grumbled as I groped around the seat in a semi stupor searching for them. They had disapeared.

Eventually my errant aids were retrieved by using to biros from where they had lost themselves in the mechanical interior of the seat and I put them on. “Yes” I said? “Tell me sir, will you be dining with us this evening” he asked with a beguiling innocent grin. “No I bloody will not” I grunted as I tried to wrestle back my duvet that had dispersed itself while I had searched for my aids.

I was getting even more tired and emotional but thankfully I managed to drift off again. Then the screeching started. Then it stopped. Then it started again. Was I dreaming? No, too loud for that. What the hell was it? I had forgotten to take my damn hearing aids back out and every time I rolled over the compression had made them screech. Only if you wear such aids do you know how unpleasant and wakeful that sound is.

Over the next hour or so I cat napped. I thought I had been clever getting seat 1A but the reverse was true. On this 747 seat 1A is right next to a big cupboard/hanging wardrobe and this one had a sticky door. Every time anyone wanted something from there they had to yank the door which made a sharp snapping sound. Then they would rummage around like noisy mice!

By this time I was past sleeping. Desperately tired yes, able to sleep? Definitely not. I tried everything. Lying this way, lying that way, on my back, the good old foetal position, but no luck. What really annoyed me was by this time everyone else had eaten their meals and gone to sleep. I was probably the only person awake and the crew had done their amazing disapearing act they always do on night flights.

There was the sound of snoring coming from all over the cabin, especially from the small frail old lady in the seat behind. I became fascinated by her as she had a great snoring action. She was as white as a corpse and her head was thrown back. Rather like the sound of a wave rushing into shore her mouth would open and then, when it could go no further the snore would come belowing out like a great breaker. The vibrations caused her false teeth to rattle around in her mouth. Fascinating stuff if you are that desperate!

How I envied them all. I was more exhausted than the lot of them combined but my brain refused point blank to shut down. In the end I gave up trying and decided to pick a boring old film from the I.F.E. system and see if that would help me sleep. It usually works at home, I thought to myself. I selected ‘Sleepless in Seattle’ as that seemed to describe the scene pretty well.

It did not work. I got into it instead. There I was, a grown man blubbing like a child as Tom Hanks and Meg Ryan (I think) came together. I must have looked a sad sight as an air hostess, who appeared from nowhere, must have seen me and brought over a cup of tea and a box of Kleenex tissues. Not my biggest alpha male moment and not conducive to sleep either.

By this time the flight was half over and any sleep I had snatched was not the restful type. However all that changed when the guy I was at the conference with woke up to use the wash room. “Can’t sleep”? he asked as he stretched luxuriantly. “No” I grunted. “Try these tablets, they are great” he said passing me a blister pack of pills. “Take a couple if you think you need them” he suggested. Now I do not usually take any kind of pills but I swallowed two of them out of desperation. They were high dosage Temazepam.

I fell into an immediate and spectacularly deep sleep for a very long time. In fact it was longer than the flight. Nobody could wake me. The crew tried, even the captain had a go. The old lady poked me with her knitting needle and someone tried cold water but nothing would revive me. They needed to land the aircraft but they had to do something with me first. In the end they put my seat upright and let me hang in it, bent double by the seat belt.

I was still in my drugged sleep after the plane landed and everyone else had disembarked. Eventually they got enough life out of me to manhandled me off the plane I still had my airline pyjamas on as nobody was prepared to change me! They left me in a plastic seat by the jetty along with my clothes on a hanger where I slept another two hours. At least one other plane load of passengers disembarked at that gate and walked past I heard one say “he must be drunk, disgraceful”!

I finally struggled awake, grabbed my things and ran to a toilet still dressed in my grey 'sleep suit'. Somehow I got myself to my car where I slept for another hour until I was awake enough to drive home. I got home and went to bed.
And then? I couldn’t sleep!

Travelling with the Stars - Naomi Campbell

What with all the regular publicity about the lovely Naomi I thought I should award her an exclusive in my humble blog. Like they say in those wonderful cosmetic advertisement ‘She’s worth it’.

I have flown with Naomi three times and got hugged by her once. Not bad averages really, especially as she was in her pyjamas at the time. Let me explain.

The first two times I saw her were on Concorde (naturally). There I was sitting at the back of the cabin with one of the only two remaining empty seats next to me. The flight was clearly being delayed for someone and suddenly she was there. She glided through the door flowing along with tight pants and a sheer silk blouse that left zero to the imagination. You could have heard a pin drop as she sasheyed further towards me and I thought ‘oh my, she is going to sit next to me. At the very last moment she gave me what I then thought was a shy and coquettish smile and……walked straight past. Behind her was an enormous Texan with a gut like a zeppelin who levered himself into the seat next to me, smiling knowingly saying “I guess this ain’t your day son”.

I have to say though Ms Campbell was sensational in that she is one of not too many that looks far better live than she does on the cover of a glossy magazine. She also seemed to have a skill that turns tough international business travellers into fawning lap dogs. “Do let me get your bag off the carousel Ms Campbell”, Let me help you with that Ms Campbell” “Where are you staying in New York Ms. Campbell”. And that was only me. The other passengers were far worse! My last view of her on that occasion was seeing this vast luggage belt with all the male Concorde passengers plus Naomi jammed in one small area as they all vied to carry her Louis Vuitton overnight bag.

My last brush with Naomi was really weird. I was sitting in seat 1A on a flight to Sao Paulo and just before the doors closed I was asked if I would move back a seat to 2A. Reason given was they had a VIP boarding and she always insists on 1A so as not to be bothered by anyone. Being an amiable soul I agreed to move and on wafted the lovely Naomi once more and plonked herself in my ex seat. She then proceeded to talk simultaneously on two phones and a blackberry while we taxied to the runway. She was finally asked to stop by a rather wary air hostess as the engines revved for take-off.

Once in the air she was straight in the toilet and emerged about 20 minutes later dressed in a pair of those grey BA first class pyjamas and a face covered in cream. On any one else it would have appeared awful but on her she looked 1 million dollars. I guess that is why she is still one of the world’s top models. She would make a potato sack look classy.

She obviously planned to go straight to sleep and, as I had a flight load of work to do, I popped round to her side and asked if the light would bother her. She reacted as if I had poked her with a cattle prod by recoiling back, muttering something incoherent and looking the other way. Having faced that apparently hostile response I slunk back to my lonely seat and grappled out my PC and spent the next four hours preparing numerous emails about very little.
Suddenly something changed. I could see a dark grey shadow moving towards my small pool of light preceded by the smell of a heavenly and expensive perfume. It was Naomi. Next thing I had been grabbed and clutched to her bosom. Am I hallucinating I wondered? Should I have stopped at two brandies after dinner? But no, it really was Naomi Campbell suffocating me in a most original but not entirely unpleasant way. She finally released me and said huskily that I had been very nice to her earlier on and “thank you”. Wow I thought, maybe some sections of the media were wrong about her and she was a sweet thing really.

I drifted off to a perfumed sleep and woke on the final approach to Sao Paulo. What woke me were Naomi’s phones, all of them, and she was going ballistic at some poor soul on the other end of one of them. She was demanding to know where he was, who he was with and threatening to get the next plane home. This was before her flight in had even landed and none of the crew seemed inclined or brave enough to tell her to stop.

We got to the gate and set off for the baggage hall. By this time Naomi was screaming at people demanding her bags NOW so she could check in for the return flight. The fuss she created was so great that security was called and I beat a hasty retreat through customs.

The next morning I was having breakfast and listening to the news when her name came up again. The newsreader was saying how Naomi Campbell had collapsed apparently ill at Sao Paulo airport and was rushed to a Brazilian hospital to have an emergency cyst operation. So that is what it was all about I thought. Or was it? Life is never boring when flying with Naomi Campbell.

Low Cost Airlines - Honeymoon Over?

The other day I spoke to a friend who had always been a massive supporter of European low cost/no frills airlines. He looked pretty annoyed and moaned about the fact that many of the deals that used to be around no longer exist. He also could not understand why he now has to do a lot of the work for them such as online check-in etc yet pay for almost every extra you can think of. Why, he said should I do all the work yet more often than not have to pay an administration fee.

It seems to me that more people than just my friend are falling out of love with these airlines. One person put it quite emotionally by saying he felt ‘betrayed by these so called ‘people's champions’. Having been in the business for many years I was surprised that folk could believe that these airlines were working in anything else but self interest but I guess if one looks at some of their past marketing and newspaper publicity one might understand.

I have my own views on this sector of the market and, as he asked my opinion I gave it. This is what I said:

OK, this is how I think the low cost airline model works:
They start a route on the stack them high and sell them cheap basis. They cut their costs to the bone and undercut the prices of any competition from the big boys. This works for a year or two until they have got hold of as many passengers they can on that route. Then their problems start.

You see, like all business they need to generate increased year on year profits but where is that increase going to come from? After all, their costs have already been stripped to the basics. They struggle to increase passenger numbers because they have already cornered their share of the market. Also this share is being attacked by the major carriers who have adjusted their prices to compete on the same ‘net plus extras’ model.

So the only way to please their investors is to enter new markets (they are already established in the best ones) and get more money from existing passengers. How do you get more money from them? Well you check your stats, booking patterns, peak flights and increase fares on those services that are popular (good timings etc) up to the highest level they think they can get away with. Then they look elsewhere amongst ancillary costs such as credit card fees, airport service 'frills' and start charging for them. When the authorities catch up with those they feel unacceptable they move these charges to a grey area described as 'admin fees'. On top of this they try to sell their customers non airline services like car hire and hotels and then go to these suppliers and negotiate special commissions for giving them business.

So the issue is that they have to keep growing in order to keep their share price up. Great in the old days but hard now they are established. The only good thing about this is that, as a result prices are finally becoming much more transparent so you can choose what you are going to get i.e. you can pick poor timings on less popular routes and still pay a low fare. As mentioned earlier these companies sell through big time marketing campaigns which mean they will still offer the occasional mega headline grabbing deals here and there.
The thing to remember is these airlines work on the basis that they do not want you to pay less than the maximum you are prepared to spend and they are finding out what that sum is in all sorts of clever ways. One could argue they are more pirates than charities!

Travel Supply Chain Intelligence

It has never ceased to surprise me how little time the chain studies its partners, clients and perceived competitors. They are all intertwined in activities right the way from the traveller to the front end supplier yet history demonstrates that they do not understand the people they depend on or those they want to replace.

A good example would be say an airline that wants to replace a TMC or GDS which is quite topical at the moment. Now the black and white capability is there in the shape of enabling technology but the real world is in colour and of different shades and complexity. Technology systems are the beginning of the road not the end of it, an enabler not the solution. But some folks just plough on anyway and seem genuinely shocked at the push back

I am convinced this happens because the players have not set the right priorities into understanding all of the things the other components do. Instead they blindly follow their ‘ideal scenario’ strategy and attempt to bludgeon it into the marketplace. Sometimes this just might work in parts but the risk of fall-out is great with the potential of lasting commercial or competitive damage. They should also realise by now that the other members in the chain are anticipating their moves and building detours and opportunities around them.

These thoughts are not here to try and dissuade the chain from evolving and diversifying, after all that is progress. What I am saying instead is that this industry needs to understand itself and its component parts a lot clearer. For example, has any airline ever taken the time (and at the right level) to examine what it’s ‘partners’ do in detail? To sit down and better evaluate the chain reaction of planned strategy and thereby have answers to the issues that will surely arise? They might even find ways that benefit, or at least soften the blow to the rest of the industry.

The way some current players go about change is simply not savvy. They know what they want and charge at it, usually with disappointing results. A bit more thought, understanding, broader knowledge and early dialogue just might form a better basis for progress. And for heavens sake remember that the world has multi markets, technologies languages and cultures. Head offices in their ‘ivory towers’ in the USA, UK, Germany and The Far East can pontificate and plan as much as they like but to little avail if their decisions simply are unworkable elsewhere. Instead they can do major damage.

So my plea is to stop, think, research a great deal, understand the players/competitors better and look way beyond the first hurdle and towards the end-game. I still maintain that the major industry bodies should be driving this understanding. Perhaps if they had less back slapping, money making, selling type conferences and more distribution, supply chain summits they would make a bigger contribution.

ASK me a QUESTION

If any or all of you have any questions that you think I might be able to answer then do not hesitate to ask either via the response facility below or direct to me on mike.platt@mpaassociates.co.uk

If I can I will give an educated and useful response. If not then I will tell you so.
Should you not want to share a discussion then simply email me and mark it as confidential.

No snags, no advertising no nothing. I just love travel and still want to contribute something if I can.

Travel Report Anguilla

Anguilla Trip Report

If you are like me you will love this place. What is like me? You might get a lot of answers to that depending on who you ask but I think I like the following:
a) I enjoy my luxuries which include air conditioning, a comfortable bed and food/drink when I want it.
b) I like accommodation which is safe and hassle free which is no longer that easy in the Caribbean.
c) People are important to me. I like them genuine and friendly rather than snooty or brash.
d) I am not overly active but enjoy sea sports and scenic comfortable beaches.
e) I enjoy my food but hate overly formal, pretentious and expensive restaurants.
f) Fun bars where you can relax and dance if you want is a bonus.

It is incredibly rare to get all these things in one place but Anguilla provided them all and more. It really is an exceptional island and I am amazed (but secretly relieved) that more people do not know about it. You ask most people in Britain about Anguilla and they will think you have pronounced Angola in central Africa badly! But there it is: this beautiful friendly island that is merely a 30 minute connection from the main British Caribbean holiday hub of Antigua.

We arrived from Antigua on 28th November 2011. The connection was great as you can avoid the chaos of arrival immigration as long as you remember to book checked bags through to Anguilla at UK check-in. If so you simply transfer across to the departure area on the right as you face immigration.

On arrival at the tiny airport in Anguilla you will obviously need to clear immigration. Remember two things, first, be sure you have got hold of and completed an arrivals card and secondly be carefully to write clearly. Very often LIAT Airways forget to give out these forms in advance so ask for them. Also immigration copy almost every last bit on the form into their computer so, if you have not written clearly, it takes ages. Trust me on this!

Once through immigration and customs you will probably need a taxi and there is a taxi controller right in front of you on the left. Taxis can be quite expensive due to their ‘sectional’ charging tariffs where, if you cross over a number of these geographic sections the price jumps. We decided not to pick up a car at the airport as even though it is a small island signs aren’t great and you could struggle first time in the dark. We hired a car which they delivered to the resort and left it at the airport when we departed. Driving is like the UK (on the left) but so are the steering wheels on the hire car!

We stayed at Meads Bay Villas which is within 20 minute drive (most places are) from the airport and we loved it. There are four villas in a zigzag line back from the beach itself. They are located between two small boutique hotels which, although unobtrusive provides added security to the location. We really did think twice about renting a villa in the Caribbean since hearing about a number of high profile incidents over recent times but I can say we felt completely safe here.

You can never rule out crime whether you are at home or on holiday. Nowhere is safe when you have people of any type around. All you can do is be sensible and part of that is to look closely at where you are planning to go. We found that the people in Anguilla all seem to know each other and understand how much they depend on tourism for their future. They want to keep their island safe so people keep coming and also there are not that many non Anguillans living there. From what I see most incidents on other islands are related to issues and people not currently active in Anguilla.

So what about these villas? Well they are well run and looked after by some exceptionally nice and helpful people. You only have to look up some of the reviews and they always recognise these folks. This matters as you really have to depend on them if something goes wrong. For example I was certain our bedroom aircon was faulty as there was a terrible buzzing coming from the wall.

Chris, the boss spent ages on his hands and knees, followed by heads down holes and walls but still no cure. No problem he assured me and called in an expert from across the islands. Still no solution until suddenly he asked me if there was anything in my suitcase leaning against the wall. We opened it and found my razor had switched itself on. I could have died but there were laughs all round and a total refusal to accept any payment for wasted time. Just a small example but I think an important one.

We settled in and spent 3 nights in villa 3. Two big bedrooms, two en-suite bathrooms, outside shower, fully equipped kitchen (better than home) and a comfortable lounge area with plasma cable TV. If we needed anything we asked and it was quickly delivered even if they had to go out and buy it. By the way they will do your initial food shopping for you so it is waiting when you arrive. As a result we were able to sip our own cold drinks and make an omelette soon after we arrived.

They also tidy your villa every day which includes loading the dishwasher, making the beds and putting out fresh beach and bathroom towels. The pool and pool deck were similarly maintained and they will do your washing and ironing at a fair price per load. Just like a hotel but with the added benefits of villa life. By the way the voltage is 110, the plugs are US two pin, robes are provided, as is a safe.

After 3 nights we moved to villa 2. All the villas are identical but we moved to be that bit closer to the sea. On reflection a waste of time and the slightly higher rental as they are all so close that we only reduced less than 30 seconds walking time! They are clever the way they have landscaped and positioned these villas to ensure privacy and soundproofing from each other. The move was seamless as you go to lunch and when you get back everything has transferred to the self same location in the new villa.

We tended to spend most days at our villa and beach except for the occasional outings to other beaches and locations. The beach at Meads Bay is terrific with a large expanse of powder white sand and small breaking waves. The island is blessed with superb beaches and the other favourite one of ours was Rendezvous Bay where the Cuisinart Hotel is located. Meads Bay villas provide plenty of shades and sun loungers on their stretch of the beach.

There is not a huge amount to see on Anguilla apart from great beaches and views. If you want an action packed holiday or if you have active children you might have a problem. For example jet skis are banned which adds to the peace but may annoy a few. Most other water sports are there and they have one pretty good golf course although it is overpriced in my opinion.

Another amazing thing about Anguilla is the dining choice available. The quality is enormously high and you can get almost anything you like. It will not cost a fortune either and I am staggered that a place as remote and small as Anguilla can attract such culinary skills. The local lobster is delicious and we even found one small new restaurant (On Da Rocks) where you could buy them for $5 each!

We could split our favourite restaurants into two types. The ones you went to purely to eat and the others where you spend the whole evening drinking and dancing. Our favourite eatery was ‘Sand Bar’ which is located in the area called Sandy Ground where most of the other restaurants are. We also enjoyed ‘Straw Hat’ which was located right next to Meads Bay Villas, in fact a 4 minute walk on a moonlit beach.

For fun we went most nights to ‘Ripples’ at Sandy Ground. It is a bar restaurant and it does the best steak and mash as well as fish and chips I have tasted anywhere. The bar section gets pretty lively sometimes but all very good fun. The British Navy goes in there when visiting port and the bar is full of great memorabilia. It really is a place you can go in alone and come out with new friends.

If you want lots of good local music and food there is ‘The Pump House’ at night and ‘Johno’s’ for Sunday afternoon Jazz. Both are at Sandy Ground. These are my personal favourites but, as I said earlier, there are many more that are equally popular including the more expensive which we did not go to like ‘Jacala’ and ‘Blanchards’, both at Meads Bay.

Our two weeks rushed by and the day of departure loomed. Again it was totally relaxed and hassle free. Somebody was going to move into our villa after we left but we were invited to take our time as the staff were willing to fit their preparation around us. The car hire man popped around for the first and last time, swiped my card and suggested I took the car to the airport and left it there. Give the keys to anyone working there he said grinning. We ended up hugging and kissing the great Meads Bay villa staff with genuine warmth and headed home.

Our particular connection at Antigua was not too good. In fact it was going to be a 6 hour wait at the airport which frankly I thought was going to be a nightmare. In my view Antigua airport is a disgrace. Considering the high density of flights passing through it at certain times the facilities are at best primitive.

To help those that have to endure an Antigua transfer I have a couple of suggestions. You will need a fully completed landing card even if you are transferring. You should have told the check in staff in Anguilla that you are connecting and although they will not check your bags through they will mark them with a transit label. This helps the other end.

When you arrive in Antigua you will usually be faced with an enormous queue of hot tired people waiting at immigration. Instead of joining them go over to the left (as you face them) of the desks and there should be a much less busy one for transferring passengers. When through there you have arrived at customs. Again, if you look on the right you should see a smaller queue for transfers.

Now at this point we did something a bit different. We could not face 6 hours at the not so tender mercy of Antigua airport so we used a fantastic, reasonably new service called ‘Outbound Lounge’www.outboundlounge.com. This is a special facility located the other side of the airport that has its own excellent facility. It is a large single story building that has a luxury lounge, sleeping room, showers, outside tables with sun loungers and everything else you could possibly wish for.

A fabulous place to pass time but it does cost and you currently have to be a British Airways passenger (any class) to use it. While you are in the lounge they check you in, sort out your baggage and bring immigration and security over to you. They then drive you directly across the runway to the aircraft steps. A grand way to finish a holiday! I cannot recommend them enough.